[Music]
3 I get
[Music]
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Gallow and me gatri on
911 1973 a disaster even greater than
that which occurred in 2001 took place
the 9/11 hijackers mercifully failed to
hit the White House but in Chile the
bombers didn't miss president Salvador a
yende was murdered in his Palace
clutching the AK-47 given to him by the
leader of the Cuban Revolution Fidel
Castro in the Chile in 9/11 senators and
congressmen were slain as were tens of
thousands of their supporters many of
them tortured and murdered in Santiago's
national football stadium leaving much
blood on the grass we mentioned Chile
not just because it's the 911 United
States forgot and not just because it's
the reason our first guest is in Britain
to begin with his parents are Pino
torture survivors and came here as
Exiles but moreover because some say
that the US is currently trying to
repeat Chile in Venezuela which happens
to be his particular area of expertise
he is Pablo navaretti a celebrated
filmmaker and journalist and he joins us
now Pablo thanks for doing so you've got
a movie coming out soon The Hip Hop
Revolution that's certain to pack them
in I'm not sure if I'm A hip-hop sort of
guy but I'm certainly up for revolution
tell us about the film
um hip-hop Revolution is um a
documentary um that that looks at a trip
that I took with um Loki quite
celebrated political rapper after making
a first film about Venezuela which was a
general look at the 10 years of the
Chavez government trying to look trying
to address some of the inadequacies of
the misrepresentations of the mainstream
media that one is called inside
reolution called inside the revolution
that came out in 2009 and uh I've made a
feature on Colombia but I always wanted
to go back and look at this particular
Collective of hip-hop revolutionaries
activists who used hip-hop as a means to
uh inspire people in their neighborhood
to talk politics to educate so this film
is a trip with Loki and jod McIntyre a
young
activist and we went to Venezuela um and
spent some time there how is it possible
that Colombia which is still a
playground of death squads and uh if not
dictatorship certainly authoritarian
government now gets such a smooth ride
in fact is more or less left entirely
alone in the western media whilst
Venezuela which has transformed the
lives of the majority of its citizens
for the better is constantly picked on
not least by the so-called liberal media
I'm thinking of the Guardian Rory Carl
whoever he is hope I never meet him I
must tell you that he better hope I
never meet him why is why does that
happen it's a very good question and one
that I've asked myself on many occasions
um you know Venezuela as you say a
country that it's important not to
idealize but there have been massive
Transformations previously excluded
sectors have been bought into the
political process uh you go there
there's debates on socialism on
participation Community radio stations
you know plethora of activities
Grassroots activity and I've been to
Colombia and you have um social leaders
of most amount of unionists killed every
year billions in funding by the US
government secret military a by the
British a recent Scandal where 6,000
civilians have been murdered by an army
funded by the west and you'd think that
this was an issue that the Western media
might want to cover yet not only do they
not cover it but they concentrate their
ey on on Venezuela Chavez dictator no
freedom of expression and I think in if
you look at the coverage of Venezuela
and in Colombia you get a real insight
into the
motivations um of the of the western
corporate media and state funded media
and you know it's a it's a question that
I would love them to answer why they
feel they can ignore the hum the gross
human rights violations in Colombia in
the neighboring country in the
neighboring country and and basically
serve as a as a so boox for the
political opposition in Venezuela to
repeat every allegation that they want
you see I have no doubt why Western
governments would want to do that what I
don't quite understand is by what
process of
osmosis uh all these journalists
including liberal ones suddenly wield
their guns in the same direction there
is a deep ignorance for example on Latin
America in Britain um I did meet Rory
Carol he rang me when I lived in
Venezuela I was working for John Pilger
as his researcher um on his democra on
his documentary the war and democracy
ter which looks at um you know Us's
interventions in countless uh Latin
American countries Chile etc etc uh and
he rang me because he wanted help with
contacts and you know he he was someone
that obviously he didn't speak Spanish
which I did find very shocking I guess
he didn't know anything about Latin
America and I perhaps rather naively was
a bit surprised by all this thinking you
know the guardian a very established
newspaper would send someone who didn't
speak Spanish and didn't really know
anything about Latin America he's
British to be their first Latin America
correspondent in 25 years with the last
probably followed the ancient rule uh of
merely speaking louder in English when
speaking to uh foreigners now let's talk
about your life for a minute I'm
fascinated by it because Chile was
something extremely important to me I
followed every day of the crisis led to
the overthrow of aend and the massacres
and so on uh afterwards here you are
speaking to us in an English accent but
still your heart is in Latin America uh
and uh not just in Chile because of
course one of the new phenomena is the
Latin americanism is that is that a fair
summary of where you are your heart's
there I think a large part of my heart
is feels Latin American rather than
Chilean you know I've I've only been to
Chile four times my parents were banned
from going until democracy forly
returned in in 19
1990 um I've spent a lot of time in
Venezuela I've traveled to Colombia I've
traveled to pretty much all the
countries in Latin America and certainly
I I do feel a connection with this new
wave of pan Latin americanism that sweep
that has swept the continent of which
Chavez chavz played such a key role in
serving as a catalyst for and actually
when we were filming um hip-hop
Revolution it was also the founding uh
meeting of CAC the new Regional body um
the first time ever that the region has
has come together to have a region of
body Latin America and the Caribbean
except the US and Canada and I think
these are sort of historic um
organizations uh and they reflect a
spirit of the times where the US has
been so Brazen in its attempts to
interfere that you know there's a new
bold leadership across the region that
says enough is enough uh um and we can
do things our own ways and we you know
it's time to really try and stand up to
the to this bully in the north so so
yeah I you know I I feel that this this
is a a good thing and it's something
that I I well it's a good thing for
Latin America it's also a very good
thing for the world of course which
needs new polls uh to come onto the
international stage the unipolar world
not only is over but has to be over and
is was perilously dangerous uh while it
existed But Central to that uh pan Latin
americanism was of course the Larger
than Life figure of Hugo Chavez may God
have mercy upon him he is gone now uh to
what extent is the process thus
endangered on the principle that there
are not two Hugo Chavez is neither in
Venezuela nor in the
world well obviously um even his most uh
strident critics admitted that a Chavez
was a larger than life character his
Charisma was overwhelming even uh and
you know they they they hated him but
they also feared him because of his of
of what you know how charismatic um he
was and obviously there are a two Oro
Chavez's but I think again with what I
want to do with our first film was to
depersonalize everything because here
the see Obsession about the individual
um and I think that is done on purpose
actually because it serves to Mak it
fragile it makes yeah it makes it all
about the individual um personalizes the
process these are historic processes in
Latin America that have been you know
drowned in Blood by the US on numerous
occasions but that you know people's
desire for Freedom this is what one of
the Venezuelan a friend and and a
community activist who I interviewed for
my first film said all we want is to be
free and you know he summarized what
what it was that they were about and I
asked him to summarize what had been
achieved in 10 years and he said
Consciousness and inclusion so you know
so much has been done yes there are lots
of challenges especially now in
Venezuela again with the new renewed
sort of fascist um Onslaught that there
is to remove the government again
supported by the US um it is an attempt
to replicate Chile 911 1972 course I
mean yeah and it's and Chile is a replic
uh was an attempt to replicate Guatemala
and Guatemala was a attempt to replicate
previous governments that went in Latin
America before that because
unfortunately the US does not want to
allow governments who want to be
independent uh to pursue policies that
benefit the broad
majorities uh because of whatever their
corporate you know allies who who put
pressure on them but you know Nixon said
we will make the economy scream and just
on Saturday I was in Manchester showing
some films at this minor wonderful minor
Center and we watched the Battle of
Chile uh an incredible documentary
Trilogy by patrici wman very celebrated
Chilean director and watching it again
and and seeing the shortages the how
food shortages were done political
strikes the CIA funded strikes you look
at Venezuela and it's you know the
parallels of striking the replica right
down to the lack of toilet paper exactly
the and in Chile the day after the coup
all this so-called the the food the the
shortages just all appeared again and I
when I lived in Venezuela middle class
area I went and the businessmen were
turning food away that we don't want
goods in this they wanted to create the
conditions so that people would feel
uneasy um you know the psychological
issues Chile before the coup they were
saying remember Jakarta they were
writing think you know trying to scare
people about Indonesia in Venezuela they
were telling when I was there they were
telling children at universities that
they would have to go to Cuba forced to
study in Cuba so that you know they they
use a range of tactics um literally
manufacturing the fear fear yeah but I
think you know the positive thing is
that it looks like in Venezuela that the
the the the process will continue um and
it's a testament to the fact that it's
not just about one man it's about
Ordinary People hip-hop activists
Community workers old ladies who have
you know as say Consciousness and
inclusion and feel that they have
something that's worth defending I'm
going to get practice it is it dance
does is hip-hop dancing or just
listening hip-hop you can just listen
you can listen but you don't have to
dance you don't have to dance all right
I'll practice hip-hop Revolution make a
date coming up after the break we're
looking at Britain's greatest invention
the national service and talking to
another celebrated filmmaker about how
it's under threat of being murdered in
the Intensive Care wart in its 67th year
we'll be right
[Music]
back welcome back to the Sputnik Britain
as the first industrial country has many
great achievements to its name but none
greater than the Innovative socialist
idea within the capitalist world of a
National Health Service free at the
point of need and funded by progressive
taxation we've all had cause to be
grateful for it and with a wife in the
late stages of pregnancy gatri and me
have all our hopes pinned on it but it's
in dire danger of being strangled by
underfunding and creeping remorseless
privatization our next guest is making
the crowdfunded documentary film selloff
which charts The Conspiracy to murder
the National Health Service his name is
Peter Bach and I'm glad to say he joins
us uh now Peter uh uh I suppose people
like me uh could be accused of crying
wolf on this subject I've been talking
about the remorseless creeping
privatization of the NHS since the
1980s am I exagger when I say it's in
danger of being strangled to death well
I think the National Health Service that
existed when you were I think it was 10
when you joined the labor party was a
robust very much loved as I think it
still is today institution and now it's
unrecognizable I don't know how it's
been done so stealthily I don't know how
it is that the public have missed this
trick but essentially what we have now
is an NHS that has technically been
abolished tell me why
well the or how rather well the
responsibility and again you must
remember um from my point of view I've
learned all this in the course of making
a film but the responsibility that was
always held by the Secretary of State
for health was the nation's Health MH
and somewhere my be the founder said if
a bed pan Falls in bedel in the South
Wales valleys yes its Echo will be heard
in the chamber of the House of Commons
because the minister will have to answer
for it well it's Echo is being heard by
me every time I think about the subject
but I'm amazed how little the echo seems
to have resounded in the ears of so many
others but going back to the state of
the Health Service the Secretary of
State for health his responsibility her
responsibility was always the nation's
health and that has been removed or as
the public interest lawyer Peter rodri
says in the film it's been
untethered in his wonderful Welsh tones
um and this is the scary thing there is
no longer a responsibility there are
people a foot trying to reverse this
people like Professor Allison Pollock
yes she's a very great expert exactly
and she features in the film and is a
great help to me and therefore the
public because as I've just said my
ignorance uh really LED my my my
confidence to go through the film if I
had approached it as an expert I think
you would have seen a weak rather
pompous film so how did you come across
this top I well it was it was a a very
personal uh story and in in so much as
as I I think the personal is always
better and what happened was I was
approached by a group of doctors and
with an element of mystery I was invited
to a basement flat in n's court and it
was snowing and the stone steps were
very slippery and I remember thinking
perhaps nervously because I didn't quite
know what was going to happen with all
these doctors I knew were way waiting
for me I thought if I fall if I crack my
head how are you going to explain what
you were doing in a basement hour Court
well there is that as well but what I
was actually thinking less playfully and
perhaps I should have been more playful
was that there were all these doctors
inside who would have been able to help
me but in fact they didn't really help
me because what they did was they
shocked me and they told me like
desperate people what was happening to
something I had never given the time of
day to and they were highly seasoned
doctors time honored practitioners
great people who believed strongly in
the essentially egalitarianism of the
concept let alone the practicalities of
the of the medical knowledge they had
and they were broken some of them and
they looked at me as somebody who they
knew was a one person kind of filmmaker
who didn't come with a cumbersome you
know politics of a Broadcasting Company
necessarily different obviously than
from how you were going about it and
they had the savviness to know that
perhaps if I could find a way of telling
that story it might be a useful means of
trying to get across to people what they
felt is not getting across and I believe
that is because of mainstream media and
I have one of my 10 chapters which is
why media and mainstream media has let
down the public in this story why would
politicians seek to abolish what is
overwhelmingly regarded in the country
as our finest achievement the jewel in
our crown uh and especially at a time
when in the United States or be it very
peace meal Obama is trying to move in
the direction we used to be in yes there
is an irony because uh to mention
Professor Allison Pollock again she sees
the engine for all of this actually
originating from the United States which
meanwhile is doing what it can to change
its system but um it would appear to me
a very simple case of neoliberalism gone
mad whereby without any proof uh the
belief is that you can save money but of
course the expectations are that
administrative costs alone including
insurance and such like will mean what
is 7% say now of our 100 billion pound
annual Health budget will will become
30% to Administration and the great
mistake and again this is fresh
information to me so I speak with
genuine shock myself the great mistake
everyone seems to be making is they
think you can save money by privatizing
it and you can't and I'm sure you know
from your point of view this is one of
those well-worn arguments there Peter at
the beginning uh uh when Mrs thater came
to power knowing the price of everything
and the value of nothing we defended the
National Health Service in terms of its
values but actually looking back on it
we could equally have defended the
National Health Service in terms of its
price because there's nothing cheaper
about privatization neither of the
railways or of the utility companies or
of the National Health Service all
you're doing is actually moving money
from the Frontline uh staff and patients
to administrators and fat cats and chief
Executives and all the rest is that what
you found in your investigation yes I
did and I also actually found that all
the major political parties were
complicit in it uh there was no way
Blair started all this well Blair well
John Major and John and Blair Blair very
much so and uh I in fact one of the
doctors I speak to who is a marvelous
clinical oncologist based in Middlesboro
who reminds us of that phrase that when
Thatcher was asked what her greatest
achievement was and answered Tony Blair
in a sense his perpetuation of the
privatization and for example the pfis
is a classic case one of the 10 themes
that the film covers um that's what I've
come across is this deadend sequence of
places that I can't go down really
without slamming into resistance which
is why it strikes me that any sensible
political party if it actually stood up
and admitted the importance of this
National Health Service it would be a
vote winner indeed uh I was for 5 years
the MP for the area including the Royal
London Hospital a misnomer of course
because you'd never find anybody Royal
in the Royal London Hospital and and its
PFI when you broke it down the cost that
the country is going to pay for the next
half century for the private funding of
this hospital it was costing us a
million pound per bed extraord per year
amazing a million pounds per extra bed
of course if we had stayed faithful to
the principles that nban founded the
National Health Service on we'd had a
better service and the that had stood up
for it would have been rewarded publicly
so I'm still not clear why they do it
well exactly and another reason for
continued lack of clarity on your part
would be that those who say oh it's a
socialist Mantra and essentially it has
to be ripped apart and slapped with the
real world forget that actually it's
egalitarianism meant that the really
wealthy had free medicine too and uh um
it was by no means something that was
exclusively you know for those of us
without um I am confused still to this
day why people don't wake up to it yeah
but uh I I well maybe your film will be
a big wake up call well I hope so I I do
hope so what it does do is it's it makes
itself aware of the fact that any
documentaries we're seeing presently
some of them very well made about
medicine are single issues and you
perhaps half an hour long and my film
does attempt to tell the whole story cuz
I think that there are 10 Central planks
all surrounding this abolition
dismantlement whatever we wish to call
it and you can't tell the full story
without telling and explaining each of
those planks together and there are
those of course who think um there's a
conspiracy and the uh the management
Consultants uh all sorts of people are
standing to benefit so much because as I
have somebody explaining big business
Peter yeah
if you get 7% or 17% of 100
billion that's really big money that's
big business very big money I mean uh
that's I mean you could choose you go
into property speculation or going into
Healthcare Management and now we have
things like clinical commissioning
groups whereby the public were fed the
line that were giving the power back to
the GPS but of course the GPS have no
experience of marketing and business and
purchasing they buy in business people
to do it for them they do and of course
you know that there's a lot of pressure
being put on doctors who've already got
quite enough we know the doctor is well
paid but what we don't often acknowledge
sufficiently is that they're overworked
and I think also there's talk among some
of the doctors of a deliberate attempt
to make them look like a failing
Enterprise yeah yeah set up to fill and
the morale is very poor because of that
how can we help your film how can we
help fund it well it would be a
marvelous thing if people could could
direct their attention to start join
that's St a r t join where there is uh a
direction to the the film it's selloff
it's NHS I have put up there a fresh
trailer that I've just made because I
have I've seen it it's very very good
very powerful so it's
[Music]
stjo.org you think through the portals
of social media what's rattling G so
what's happening in Venezuela and how do
we know wake up UK answers I have
actually no idea because I do not trust
the source of information regarding
Venezuela anyway L Tweeter says the same
as happened in Egypt they want the
overthrow of democratically elected
government to which our own beloved
William heg then
responds the William heg our beloved
Willi
okay if Venezuela has oil gas or opium
we'll give them democracy too very good
well of course AR is the uh proper
source to follow events in Venezuela
there is there is a
conspiracy uh probably not centrally
organized but there's a conspiracy to do
down Venezuela it is the biggest replica
of Chile and and and for obvious
material reasons it's the biggest
supplier of oil to the United States
about the NHS John WBY answers that it
was the greatest postwar social
Innovation currently being sold piece by
piece to leeches by our elected
officials well that's it for this week
uh which sadly means that's the end of
the show do keep in touch with us on
Twitter at rtor Sputnik and on Facebook
you can like us on Sputnik on Russia
today it's goodbye from me gri and for
me George Galloway it's been marvelous
oh
[Music]